True Diversity feat. Lee Chambers

This article is based on a transcript from that chat where Lee talks about why inclusion matters, how it helps build better workplaces, and why men need to be part of the conversation.

Tony: Starting with the need for diversity and inclusion. Why is it so important?

Lee: So from my perspective, and from a lot of the work that I’ve done, the importance of diversity and inclusion spans a variety of different areas. The first one for me is, in an increasingly individualistic world, the things that actually bring us together, especially across difference. Because as we become more individualistic, we actually start to fear difference more than embrace and celebrate it.

So things that actively work to bring different people together in a proactive and intentional way are increasingly important in an algorithmic world, which is trying to bring commonality together rather than difference. I think it’s vital for society that we’re able to create communities of difference rather than communities of commonality.

I think, secondly, it’s important because we still live in a world without modern meritocracy. Your outcomes are still massively determined by lots of things that you can’t necessarily control yourself, but that do potentially present either an awful lot of systemic barriers to overcome, or significantly less. And we all benefit when we collectively work together to reduce some of those barriers, because fundamentally it means that we can create better outcomes from the work that we do together.

There’s more opportunity to work with great people. Talent gets the ability to rise. People can get closer to their potential. People get the opportunity to perform, which is vital for sustainable businesses. And more than ever, people feel like they can belong, not necessarily their whole self, because many people don’t want to bring their whole self into the workplace, but they would like to bring their best, most effective self. And an inclusive culture allows that to happen.

It allows that embracing of difference which, whether we’re looking at commercial or societal outcomes, helps us mitigate risks earlier, see more potential opportunities, create more effective products and services, and just make better workplace cultures where people want to stay, continue to develop themselves, and continue to contribute. They see it as a net positive rather than something that takes away from them.

I think that’s vital because the next generation is more sensitive towards these things and is definitely looking for more purpose and more alignment in the very work that they do. So yes, it’s vital in a lot of different ways. When it’s done effectively, and in a structured and really considered way, it simply makes for better ecosystems that humans can exist within.

At the end of the day, as humans, we need those spaces to be able to grow and thrive. And it’s not always on us as individuals to create those spaces.

Tony: That’s a brilliant answer. Thank you. Absolutely agree with all of that. Can you share a little bit more about what you do at Males Allies UK?

Lee: Male Allies UK fundamentally exists to help men engage in inclusion. From our work, we’ve seen that when it comes to people-orientated projects in the workplace, whether that’s around well-being, inclusion, people engagement, or people development, there are a lot more women who get involved. In the bigger picture, that means men are missing out on the opportunity to be part of designing what these people structures will look like in the future. If they’re not present, they can’t be part of co-designing and co-creating them.

We’ve also seen over the years the impact on men’s health when they don’t take a more collective approach to navigating the world. The isolation, individualism, self-reliance, and self-sufficiency, sold as independence and freedom, actually come at a cost. No man is an island. If men can connect with people, it gives them the ability to feel more connected to the world, and also to themselves.

So we exist to engage men in inclusion, to support them in building the skills of allyship, and to be honest about the systemic barriers that still exist for all genders in the workplace. We specifically start from a binary perspective and move beyond that over time.

We do this through delivering masterclasses that are more informational, busting myths and misconceptions, identifying barriers from our research, and highlighting the benefits of inclusion. Too often, inclusion is framed only around when it goes wrong, microaggressions, discrimination, poor behaviours, bad cultures, rather than amplifying the benefits of getting it right and doing it well.

We also create spaces and consult on engagement, whether that’s events, men’s networks, male partner networks, male strands, or male pillars. We host what we call creative spaces, where men can share their perspectives on inclusion without judgment, contribute their honest views, and express sentiments they might feel suppressed from sharing elsewhere. There are boundaries of respect, but it removes the sense of “I can’t say anything.” This lets them explore their beliefs, and as we go through that process with curiosity, we often find the root of resistance is linked to their own personal challenges, economic pressures, divorce, mental health struggles, fertility issues, lack of friends, caring for parents, and more.

If men don’t feel they can share these experiences, it can cause frustration that other challenges get more attention or visibility. In these spaces, they can connect, support each other, and see they’re not alone, because again, no man is an island.

We also look at what organisations can do systemically to get more men collaborating together. Our big mission, beyond those safe spaces, is to get everyone in the room together. It’s vital to shine a light on our blind spots, recognise that men and women are not homogeneous groups, and that there are massive intersecting identities within both. There are also common challenges across genders, and many issues that impact women in the workplace have a tail, end effect on men that often goes unconsidered.

If we can work together to address the gender stereotypes and norms that restrict us, many of which are at the root of these challenges, we can start to create a world where we can be who we truly are, rather than who we’ve been told to be. This will make us less judgmental, more curious about each other, and more able to explore what’s possible, bringing our own authentic expression into the world.

Tony: In your opinion, what does good allyship look like?

Lee: Yeah, so the word “allyship”, when I first came across it nine years ago, I didn’t like the term. It felt very militaristic, like “good guys versus bad guys,” a rallying cry of “join us and let’s blow them up.” That didn’t mirror my perspective on what I wanted to achieve.

I’d been on a personal journey, building a tech company, getting ill, learning to walk again, stepping out to become a stay, at, home dad, and through that, I began seeing the world differently. I realised there were many things I hadn’t seen or noticed before, a lot of unfairness in the world.

Initially, I resisted the term, but then I learned its root comes from the Old French word alliere, meaning “to combine, to unite, to come together.” That clicked for me. Allyship is about that collaborative, collective coming together, partnering with people for change, and partnering through difference.

Good allyship is multifaceted. It starts with personal work: unpacking your own conditioning, educating yourself on other perspectives without placing emotional labour on others. Then there’s allyship “in the moment”: thinking about who’s not in the room, who is in the room but not being heard, who’s being interrupted or not credited. It’s having the courage to bring someone in, amplify their voice, ensure they get the credit they deserve, and being mindful of who is doing work that goes unrecognised.

There’s also the systemic aspect, examining policies to see if they create more or less opportunity, and looking at processes like meetings, networking, promotions, project allocation, recruitment, and more. We all have different levels of systemic power to make change, but everyone has some ability to make change.

I see allyship as a skill to build, not an ideology to believe. We’re often beginners when it comes to the lived experiences of others, but over time we gain benefits from building these skills. It requires willingness to learn, humility, courage to challenge, and curiosity about what we don’t yet know.

Good allyship also means knowing when to step forward to challenge and question, when to step to the side to partner on change and projects, and when to step back to allow others to take the platform and lead. That ability to move fluidly, stepping forward, aside, and back, is the essence of allyship. It’s easy to get stuck in one of those positions, but true allyship is an agile skill.

Tony: I love that meaning of allyship! And your point about stepping forward, stepping to the side, and stepping back is a great one. A lot of people, maybe through fear of getting it wrong, default to stepping back, and I’ve done that in the past. Then, once you do step forward, the tendency might be to do it all the time or too much. So that’s a really good awareness point ,  I’ve learned something just from hearing that. Thank you.

Tony: Can you give an example of what good allyship looks like?

Lee: In terms of good allyship, there are more great examples than we often appreciate. Sometimes those examples are small and easy to overlook, because we tend to think of allyship as lots of small, intentional, inclusive acts that build the skill set.

We don’t see allyship as making big sweeping statements, grand gestures, or one, off transformational changes. It’s about those micro, moments in the day, to, day. Yes, there’s a lot that could be improved, but even simple actions can be powerful, like seeing senior leaders openly say, “I’m going to pick my kids up” or “I’m taking time off with my children.” Especially for male senior leaders, that challenges stigma and models what I call “caregiving loudly.”

Other examples include men calling out sexist remarks in meetings and explaining why they’re problematic, or pulling women back into conversations when they’ve been interrupted, saying, “Hang on, you’ve just interrupted her, let her finish her point.”

Some of the most powerful examples of allyship, though, are the ones we don’t see, like changing policies or systems, or using institutional power to advocate for something you wouldn’t necessarily expect them to be passionate about. Those are moments when people put real skin in the game, because allyship can be uncomfortable.

If you’re going to build this skill set and take action, it’s going to feel risky at times. You might feel scared or unsure. In our research, fear is the biggest barrier to men stepping in. That’s understandable given the current climate, but fear can also be a signal to act. Today’s discomfort becomes tomorrow’s growth.

It’s important for men to see that allyship is a beneficial skill to build and to understand the potential personal benefits over time. That perspective can help turn discomfort into growth. While that might sound transactional or self, centered at first, we’ve seen that men who sustain their allyship journey often don’t know the benefits at the start, they discover them gradually, and that keeps them engaged.

Tony: Can you tell us more about the report you’ve been working on?

Lee: Our social impact work as a company includes working with boys in schools. We’re passionate about that, because many of them are not far from entering the workplace themselves, a workplace that’s increasingly volatile, dynamic, and, at times, really challenging.

It’s a very different environment compared to the education system. These young boys have grown up in a fascinating but complex world. They’ve had a digital, first existence; social media has been present in their lives from the day they were born. Many of them have never experienced living on a street where they know all the neighbours, people of different ages, cultures, and political affiliations, and sharing those everyday connections, like a garden party. They haven’t had that exposure to difference.

Instead, they’re often algorithmically pulled into echo chambers of people who think and act exactly like them, manipulated, shaped, moved around, and sold to, growing into future consumers. At the same time, they’re living in a world where masculinity is unclear. The way it used to be isn’t how it will be in the future, but there’s no clear definition of what it is now. Many young boys are searching for answers during that crucial adolescent period, trying to figure out who they are.

We wanted to understand what it’s like to be a boy between 12 and 15 in the UK today. So we spoke to over a thousand boys, asking their perspectives on education, the future, technology, masculinity, and femininity, just to understand how they see these things. Our upcoming report will bring their voices to life, sharing their views directly, in their own words.

Ultimately, they too will benefit from building the skills of allyship in a world of disinformation and moral outrage, where they’re often told they’re hard done by. And yes, economically, it will be difficult for many young men to achieve what their parents did, given the current economic cycle.

But I take a lot of hope from speaking to them. They’re insightful, and I think we often undervalue their perspectives. More than ever, it’s a challenging time for them, but if we can support them through it, they can help us understand the world they want to live in. That’s why we need to work together across generations, something we haven’t always been very good at.

Tony: That’s amazing, when does it go live?

Lee: It’s going live on the 30th of October. We’ve got a launch event at the House of Commons.

Tony: That’s awesome. Will it be available to the public?

Lee: Yes, there’ll be an accessible version available, which will be downloadable after the event.

Tony: How can businesses or potential employers get involved with Male Allies UK?

Lee: The best thing to do is connect with us on LinkedIn, where we share a lot of resources and perspectives. You can also visit our website, maleallies.co.uk, which has a range of resources.

Engage with us, because the most valuable thing we do is speak with people. We work across 13 different industries, so we see a wide range of perspectives, commonalities, and sector, specific challenges. Everything we do starts with a conversation.

We don’t gatekeep our lessons or knowledge, because we want companies to make this work relatable to them. The key is for us to connect and follow each other’s journeys. There might be a point where you’re looking to engage more men, or when allyship skills could benefit your culture, and at that point, we can partner and do something more formal.

Until then, it’s just good to be connected, to understand the work, and to know you’re not on the journey alone. This is meaningful work, and in these uncertain times, coming together is more important than ever.

Tony: Thank you so much, Lee. I’ve really enjoyed chatting to you and there are so many takeaways.  Best of luck with everything and I look forward to reading the report when it’s live.

Male Allies UK  is on a mission to normalise active allyship and cultivate gender equity within organisations and communities.

If you are a part of an initiative, brand or company that proactively champions diversity and would like to be featured as part of the “True Diversity” series please get in touch with Tony.

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